DATING ENGLISH TINNED TOBACCO: Difference between revisions

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'''''Written by John C. Loring'''''<br>
'''''Written by John C. Loring, 1999'''''<br>
''Contributed by Yang Forcióri''
''Contributed by Yang Forcióri''


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The key year for Dunhill tobacco is 1981 when production of most Dunhill tobacco blends was shifted from Dunhill to Murray in Northern Ireland (at the time both Dunhill and Murray were subsidiaries of the same parent company). While the blends remained of very fine quality, distinct differences were immediately apparent, I suspect from Murray's use of younger tobacco and probably some recipe changes due to the unavailability of some tobacco varieties. The only exception to the Murray transition were the My Mixture blends (other than 965). The My Mixture blends (other than 965), were, (and are) available only from the London Duke Street shop. Those blends apparently continued to be blended in house for some time, and today are produced for the Duke Street shop by a small batch blender in London.
The key year for Dunhill tobacco is 1981 when production of most Dunhill tobacco blends was shifted from Dunhill to Murray in Northern Ireland (at the time both Dunhill and Murray were subsidiaries of the same parent company). While the blends remained of very fine quality, distinct differences were immediately apparent, I suspect from Murray's use of younger tobacco and probably some recipe changes due to the unavailability of some tobacco varieties. The only exception to the Murray transition were the My Mixture blends (other than 965). The My Mixture blends (other than 965), were, (and are) available only from the London Duke Street shop. Those blends apparently continued to be blended in house for some time, and today are produced for the Duke Street shop by a small batch blender in London.


*''''20s - '60s:''' During this period the 'knife lid' was the primary tin style. In the '50s some 'coin twist' tins were introduced with a decade long, transition from the 4 ounce 'knife lid' to a 4 ounce 'coin twist' starting in the early '60s. [This decade long 'transition' may be indicative of the extended 'in the tin' aging that Dunhill gave its tobaccos.] These 4 ounce 'coin twists' are often called 'tall boys' because they were the same circumference as the 2 ounce 'coin twist' tins, just twice as high. Not all tins during these five decades were imprinted with the packaging weight but when they were it was only in ounces. Closer dating may generally be arrived at through the royal crest that appears on most tins. A Prince of Wales Crest dates from 1921 to 1936; a George VI Crest with a reference to the King dates from 1936 to 1953; a George VI Crest with no reference to the King dates to 1954; a George VI Crest with reference to the late King dates from 1954 to 1962; and an Elizabeth II Crest dates from 1963 to 1995. In addition tins from the WWII era bore a small reference to war time packaging requirements.
*''''20s - '60s:''' During this period the 'knife lid' was the primary tin style. In the '50s some 'coin twist' tins were introduced with a decade long, transition from the 4 ounce 'knife lid' to a 4 ounce 'coin twist' starting in the early '60s. <span style="font-size:small"> [This decade long 'transition' may be indicative of the extended 'in the tin' aging that Dunhill gave its tobaccos.] </span> These 4 ounce 'coin twists' are often called 'tall boys' because they were the same circumference as the 2 ounce 'coin twist' tins, just twice as high. Not all tins during these five decades were imprinted with the packaging weight but when they were it was only in ounces. Closer dating may generally be arrived at through the royal crest that appears on most tins. A Prince of Wales Crest dates from 1921 to 1936; a George VI Crest with a reference to the King dates from 1936 to 1953; a George VI Crest with no reference to the King dates to 1954; a George VI Crest with reference to the late King dates from 1954 to 1962; and an Elizabeth II Crest dates from 1963 to 1995. In addition tins from the WWII era bore a small reference to war time packaging requirements.


*''''70s:''' 'Coin twist' tins were used exclusively during the '70s in the 2 ounce, 4 ounce 'tall boy', and 8 ounce sizes and as in prior years generally were labeled with words to the effect that the tobacco was been blended 'by Dunhill' in 'England' (or prior to the '70s often 'Great Britain').
*''''70s:''' 'Coin twist' tins were used exclusively during the '70s in the 2 ounce, 4 ounce 'tall boy', and 8 ounce sizes and as in prior years generally were labeled with words to the effect that the tobacco was been blended 'by Dunhill' in 'England' (or prior to the '70s often 'Great Britain').
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*''''90s:''' In about 1990 the Murry blended tobacco label was changed to show that it was manufactured under the authority of Dunhill. In 1995 the Elizabeth II Crest was deleted from the tins and 'authority' was changed to 'in association' with Dunhill.
*''''90s:''' In about 1990 the Murry blended tobacco label was changed to show that it was manufactured under the authority of Dunhill. In 1995 the Elizabeth II Crest was deleted from the tins and 'authority' was changed to 'in association' with Dunhill.


In short (and with some generalization):
'Association' or 'authority' equals Murray / '90s;
'United Kingdom' equals Murray / '80s - '90s;
Paper label 'coin twist' standard blends equals Murray / early '80s;
Fractional or dual weight painted 'coin twists' made in 'England' equal Dunhill/early '80s;
Whole ounces, or tall boy 'coin twists' equals Dunhill / '70s - '60s; and
'Knife-lid' equals Dunhill / '60s or earlier.
'''Rattray'''
More mistakes are made in dating Rattray tobacco tins than with any other brand. The key is to generally disregard the label and look at the tin itself.
Rattray was a Scottish tobacconist who closed up shop in about 1980 but whose highly regarded pipe tobacco blends continue to the present day. Up to about 1970 all Rattray tobacco was blended by Rattray and came in tall thin 4 ounce 'knife lid' (or briefly in the 1960's in 4 ounce 'lever') tins. These tins were all labeled 'Made by Rattray'. <span style="font-size:small"> [For reasons unknown the Highland Targe label has never been imprinted either 'Made by' or 'Made for' and dating of this blend has to be done by the tin top and bottom alone.] </span>It is generally thought that Rattray continued blending all of its blends for another ten years and then, in 1980, turned them over to Robert McConnell, a fine English blender. However, based on a conversation related by Irwin Friedman with a former Rattray employee and which I find, with some modification, collaborated by the packaging, it appears rather that in about 1970 Rattray turned over the blending of some of its blends intended for the United States to McConnell. McConnel labeled the tins it blended 'Made for Rattray'. Rattray continued to blend itself the tins intended for the English and European markets, as well as all the blends of lesser demand, which tins were labeled, as in the past, 'Made by Rattray'.
When Rattray closed its doors in 1980 McConnell took over the blending of all the Rattray labeled tobacco, but did not change the labeling, thus after 1980 some McConnell blended tins were labeled 'Made for Rattray' while others also blended by McConnell were nonetheless labeled 'Made by Rattray'. McConnell blended in England through the 1980s but shifted production to Germany (and later elsewhere) beginning in about 1990 without any change in the labels, thus continuing the now meaningless 'Made by Rattray' and 'Made for Rattray' duality. Further, the country of origin for the German made Rattray was not included on the label (in the US only it was on a removable tab on the bottom of the tin).
Thus for Rattray tobaccos it is impossible to determine from the label alone who was the blender or when or where the tin was blended.
But if you largely disregard the label and look at the tin top and bottom you will do just fine:
*if the 'pop top' tin top is plain, the tin dates to the 1990's and was blended on the Continent;
*'if the 'pop top' tin top has pictorial opening instructions and there is a "Made for Rattray" label Robert McConnell of England was the blender and the tin dates to the 1970's -1880s;
*if the 'pop top' tin top has text only opening instructions and there is a "Made by Rattray label it dates to the 1970's and was blended by Rattray of Scotland; and
*if the 'pop top' tin top has pictorial opening instructions and there is a "Made by Rattray" label the tin dates either to the 1970's and was blended by Rattray in Scotland, if it has a silver tinted bottom, or to the 1980's and was blended by McConnell in England, if the tin has a gold tinted bottom.
The problem with the last category of tins however, is that it is extremely difficult to determine whether you are looking at a silver or a gold tinted tin bottom unless you have one of the other for comparison (and do not believe any one that tells you they can do it without a comparison tin). For comparison purposes you can safely use either a Rattray's 'pop top' with text only instructions on the top, which tin will only have a silver bottom or, more readily findable, a tin with pictorial instructions on the top and a 'made for Rattray' label, which tin will only have a gold bottom.
*Plain top (either a "for" or "by" label & either a gold or silver bottom) ---------------- Europe/'90s
*Picture top / gold bottom / "by" label ------------------------- England (McConnell)/'80s
*Picture top / gold bottom / "for" label ----------------- England (McConnell)/'70s - '80s
*Picture top / silver bottom / "by" label ---------------------------- Scotland (Rattray) /'70s
*Text only top / silver bottom / "by" label ----------------------- Scotland (Rattray) /'70s.
08:17, 14 August 2019 (CDT)
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[[Category:Dunhill]]
[[Category:Dunhill]]